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Banned Comments on Dandavats 2

Posted On: Tue, 2008-05-13 20:44 by sitapati

Watch a video podcast of Sita-pati and David Jorm discussing the annotations issue.

Here is the second of three comments that I submitted to Dandavats.com before the right to discussion and expression was revoked there.

I think we all know deep down that people have problems with ISKCON not because of what the books say, but because of what devotees have done. Out of 100 people 1 will read the Bhagavatam, the other 99 will read the devotee. That’s why Srila Prabhupada opens the Bhagavatam with a sketch of the life of Lord Caitanya, the ideal preacher of the Bhagavatam. People by and large, if they do know of controversial statements in the books, know of them not because they’ve read them, but because they read newspaper and internet articles about what devotees have done.

No-one had such great problems with Srila Prabhupada saying things at the time he said them because of his personal behaviour. He never used any of his own statements to discriminate against women, black people, or gays. He never used them to justify child abuse or rape.

Of the people who have bought and read the Bhagavatam around me in the last decade, no-one did it because they intellectually accepted everything in there at once. They did it because of the personal influence of people who embodied the Bhagavatam principles - devotees.

Trying to write around Srila Prabhupada words in his own books is not the answer. Trying to live following his example is the answer. Changing the books is an impersonal approach. A “voice from the sky” meta commentary on Srila Prabhupada’s commentary is impersonal, and the idea repels me. As a strategy for dealing with our PR ills it seeks to address things on a global, impersonal level, rather than at the local, personal level where change must ultimately take place.

My understanding of the role of the GBC is that it is to make sure that members of ISKCON are reading and following the books, rather than to change them to suit public opinion.

Without ideal preachers of Bhagavatam no amount of rewriting can change the situation, and with ideal preachers no amount of rewriting is necessary.

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Sacred Territory - by Shiromani devi dasi

Posted On: Wed, 2008-05-14 02:05 by sitapati

Today Mother Shiromani emailed me the following paper that she prepared yesterday on the annotations issue:

Sacred Territory
by Shiromani devi dasi
Tuesday, May 13, 2008

Abstract

Srila Prabhupada instructed his followers to write books that explain Krishna consciousness in their own words. It can be reasonably assumed that annotations to his books fall within that mandate. In what form should such annotations be presented? It is my humble contention that Srila Prabhupada’s books should continue to be printed in their original form. Annotations should be presented in separate books which may include Srila Prabhupada’s text.

Issues explored

In this essay I have tried to explore a few critical issues on the topic of “End notes or Appendices in Srila Prabhupada’s Books”. These are classified under the following headings:

  • Tradition
  • Hermeneutics
  • Attraction or Distraction?
  • End justifies the means, but where does it end?
  • Conclusion

Tradition

It is a standard practice in the Vaisnava tradition especially among the followers of Sri Madhvacarya and Sri Ramanujacarya to provide annotations to the works of their founder-acarya. However two versions of their founder-acharyas’ works are simultaneously available, one version without any annotations, and one version with annotations that may be considered authoritative by later followers of the annotator.

Hermeneutics

In principle Srila Prabhupada’s statements in his books can be of three types:

a)Statements that have only a literal meaning
b)Statements that have a literal and also a non-literal meaning
c)Statements that have a only a non-literal meaning

Since ours is an “As It Is” tradition we operate mainly in Category a) and b). They are our default categories. Category c) is an exception. What determines whether a statement belongs to category c)? I would think that we should let Srila Prabhupada himself draw the line. In other words if Srila Prabhupada explicitly states in the same place or elsewhere in his teachings that something should be taken non-literally, we take it like that. If not, his statements may have both literal and non-literal meanings and the literal meaning of any of his statements cannot be ruled out. In the “rape” quotes that find specific mention in the GBC resolution, there is another instance as Locanananda Prabhu has pointed out where Srila Prabhupada is repeating almost the same thing. I first present the quotes found in the GBC resolution and then draw your attention to the quote brought up by Locanananda Prabhu.

From GBC resolution:

Although rape is not legally allowed, it is a fact that a woman likes a man who is very expert at rape.

- Srimad Bhagavatam 4.25.41, p.

When a husbandless woman is attacked by an aggressive man, she takes his action to be mercy.

- Srimad Bhagavatam 4.25.42, p.

Generally, when a woman is attacked by a man--whether her husband or some other man--she enjoys the attack, being too lusty.

- Srimad Bhagavatam 4.26.26, p.

From Srila Prabhupada’s conversations, Morning Walk, May 11, 1975, Perth:

Rape means without consent, sex. Otherwise there is no rape. There was a rape case in Calcutta, and the lawyer was very intelligent. He some way or other made the woman admit, "Yes, I felt happiness." So he was released. "Here is consent." And that's a fact. Because after all, sex, rape or no rape, they will feel some pleasure. So the lawyer by hook and crook made the woman agree, "Yes, I felt some pleasure." "Now, there is consent." So he was released. After all, it is an itching sensation. So either by force or by willingly, if there is itching, everyone feels relieved itching it. That's a psychology. It is not that the woman do not like rape. They like sometimes. They willingly. That is the psychology. Outwardly they show some displeasure, but inwardly they do not. This is the psychology.

The above conversation is self-explanatory and reveals that Srila Prabhupada did intend a “sometimes” literal meaning of his rape statements in the Bhagavatam purports. It’s too difficult to interpret otherwise. “They like sometimes”, he says. If we take this “sometimes” literal meaning along with context of the purport it is sufficiently probable that at “other times or most of the times” Srila Prabhupada is referring to the sexual aggression of a man towards his wife. This aggression of a man towards his wife is the interpretation that I have heard from senior devotees like Srila Satsvarupa Maharaja, Srila Sivarama Maharaja (in his recent podcast) and Srila Ravindra Svarupa Prabhu.

I do not claim to know how the statements in the above conversation about rape are true and can offer no explanations about them but my contention is that these are unblemished and undisputable words of our founder-acharya.

I am trying to arrive at a salient point here. If the annotations are formulated on the hermeneutical principle that a “sometimes” literal reading is possible wherever applicable, there seems not much scope for confusion. However if the annotations are formulated in an exclusive non-literal sense, it should be strongly backed with explicit statements from Srila Prabhupada on the same topic legitimizing the formulation. If this is not done, there is a clear possibility and danger that ISKCON devotees in general may misapply the GBC’s precedent. They may exercise the liberty to randomly pick statements in Srila Prabhupada’s books that they dislike and provide them with non-literal interpretations resulting in more confusion than solution.

Attraction or distraction?

The proposed annotations are intended to help readers who may have difficulty while reading Srila Prabhupada’s books and thereby attract them to Srila Prabhupada’s message.

I have been preaching to westernized, highly educated girls of Indian origin at the prestigious Manipal Medical and Engineering University in South India for the last 9 years. Manipal is a university town of about 50,000 students. It is 3 miles away from Udupi, the bastion of Sri Madhvacarya and his followers and the abode of Sri Krishna, the famed deity elaborated upon and glorified by Srila Krsnadas Kaviraj Goswami in the Caitanya-Caritamrta. Yet despite being only three miles away from the holy land of Udupi, Manipal stands out distinctly in a world of its own as a western haven. I say this from experience having traveled several times to different parts of United States of America.

I took to Krishna consciousness when I was a student at the same medical university and later emerged as a medical doctor from that university. When I mean westernized girls, I mean it in a literal sense. Most of the girls including myself are born and brought up outside India in the west. We come from ultra-modern backgrounds soaked in western values. In fact the first time I heard that a wife should be subservient to her husband is from Srila Prabhupada’s books. Many of these girls who have taken to Krishna Consciousness still retain strong feminist leanings. Yet, in all these nine years, I haven’t come across girls leaving Krsna consciousness because of Srila Prabhupada's comments on women. Some ask me to explain the purport in BG 1.40, 16.7 and so on, as and when we go through them. We discuss a little and move on. Srila Prabhupada’s presentation of Krishna Consciousness is so overwhelming that none of girls get stuck with these statements on women because they are enamored by the message of Krishna consciousness that Srila Prabhupada is trying to present. Ultimately that is the key issue. Srila Prabhupada’s words in his books are not just valuable information but rather they are non-different from Krishna who interacts with sincere readers.

The problem with annotations in the same book is this:

I presume that Srila Prabhupada's statements about women will be marked, probably with an asterisk or something to that effect, to draw one's attention to the added annotation either as an endnote or as an appendix. When someone goes through the book, that statement with a mark next to it will stick in the head. When someone reads a book and wants to remember something, they highlight it, or mark it. That way it sticks in the head. Here the marking is already done.

Furthermore, when they read the added annotation it will make them think about it even more. Instead of spending my time extolling the glories of Bhagavad Gita, Srila Prabhupada, the Holy Name and devotees, I'll be spending time explaining these statements about women and other such topics.

Presently when I do a review of all the 18 chapters of the Bhagavad Gita with relatively new girls after conducting a whole course, I hear different reasons why Arjuna doesn't want to fight and how we can relate to Arjuna's position, as a summary of the first chapter.

Inevitably, with annotations drawing undue attention to other topics, I guess for example that the girls would also include statements about women while summarizing the first chapter.

In my humble opinion, annotations to Srila Prabhupada's comments on women for example will generate unnecessary attention to sexist issues and make ISKCON a sexist religion. It isn't that right now. Likewise annotations on other issues would be intrusive and in fact lead to distraction when the intended purpose of the annotations is instead attraction to Srila Prabhupada’s message.

End justifies the means, but where does it end?

There are controversial statements by Srila Prabhupada on several topics and the GBC resolution indeed has sweeping provisions to annotate all of them. Changing social climate and political correctness in different parts of the world may however lead to a virtually endless process of annotations. When and where does it end?

Conclusion

If annotated versions of Srila Prabhupada’s books are the only versions that may be printed in future then the annotations within those books would implicitly assume the same sacrosanct status as Srila Prabhupada’s own words unless there is a disclaimer that the annotations need not reflect the views of the author. That would however spoil the very purpose of the annotations. Catch 22.

The most compelling argument I have seen so far against releasing only annotated versions of Srila Prabhupada’s books comes from Sitapati Prabhu. I am paraphrasing it here: Srila Prabhupada’s books are central to the voluntary participation of the members of ISKCON - arguably acceptance of these books is the common platform of ISKCON membership. Interfering with that dynamic would mean striking at the very heart of devotees’ sense of self and identity as a member of ISKCON.

Let things be simple.

While annotated versions of Srila Prabhupada’s books are a welcome and vibrant addition to our rich literary tradition, Srila Prabhupada books in their original form should continue to be printed simultaneously. To exclusively print Srila Prabhupada’s books in their annotated form would be an unnerving foray into sacred territory, the ramifications of which may be unimaginably complex and soul boggling.

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Category and Degree

Posted On: Wed, 2008-05-14 07:06 by sitapati

View a video podcast discussing "the power to annotate"

A simple argument:

There is a difference between a person who has never drunk wine, a person who drinks a little, and a person who drinks a lot.

However, the difference between the person who has never drunk and the two who drink is categorical, whereas the difference between the two who drink is merely one of degree.

If you never drink, you can't become an alcoholic. If you do drink, even just a little, you are in the category of people who can become alcoholic.

Similarly: the difference between "not annotating Srila Prabhupada's books" and "annotating Srila Prabhupada's books" is one of category.

The difference between "a little clarification" and "philosophical deviation" is one of degree.

We are poised to take an irreversible step over the line of category and into the land of degree. Do we really want to do that?

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Sita-pati das

Mission

jani va na jani, kari apana-sodhana

  1. "Whether I realize it or not, it is for self-purification that I write this blog."


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