"The Science of Krishna"

A reader writes in relation to Krishna Consciousness is not Scientific":

I was somewhat confused on this point that it can be perceived via direct perception.

Even though it can be directly percieved, isn't true that we need to right set of eyes, or perceptive tools and for that to happen, we do need to embrace KC via its process, doesn't these means hypthosis -seeing Krsna, apparatus - Japa beads, books etc , method - Chanting, reading, listening, serving, introspection etc, then results - Krsna bhakti?

Also we hear that anyone that knows the science of Krsna Consciousness is a spiritual master. Having said all this, can we still say KC is scientific and therefore is a science?

My reponse:

What pratyakasvagamam means is that, as you say, by following the process of Krishna Consciousness you will directly, personally experience Krishna Consciousness.

An analogy that we use to illustrate this is to say: "How do you know when you are full? You feel it. You know."

That's more or less the idea of "direct perception". The reason this is not scientific is that while you may say: "Yes, I directly perceive it, I am experiencing Krishna consciousness", there is no way for an outside observer to test whether or not you really do perceive it. So no experiment can be made to confirm it scientifically.

As you point out, with Krishna Consciousness you follow a process and then you get a result, however my scientific colleagues would respond that it still fails the criteria for modern science because there is no falsifiability.

While I can say: "You do the experiment and see", if they do the experiment and do not experience Krishna Consciousness I can simply say: "Well, obviously you didn't do it right."

Since you cannot construct an objective experiment to prove the presence of Krishna Consciousness, and neither can you conclusively disprove the process of Krishna Consciousness, it cannot be scientific, in the most common modern sense of the word.

Now as to describing Krishna Consciousness as "a science" (as in "anyone who knows the science of Krishna"), what is meant by this is that it is "comprehensive, consistent, systematic, and fully documented". In this context the word science is used in its sense of "knowledge", rather than referring to the formal paradigm of deterministic empiricism that prevails in modern society.

I've found that people who actually grok modern science (rather the pop version that most people understand) are sometimes open to accepting it, or at least considering it, if you explain it as a "comprehensive, consistent, systematic, and fully documented metaphysical system".

However, if you try to present or defend it as "scientific", you will lose, and it's not even the point you are trying to make.

So, Krishna Consciousness may be described as "a science" (although I feel it better to spell it out: it's comprehensive, consistent, systematic, and fully documented), but it's not "scientific" in the contemporary Western sense.

Krishna Consciousness "Scientific"

"That's more or less the idea of "direct perception". The reason this is not scientific is that while you may say: "Yes, I directly perceive it, I am experiencing Krishna consciousness", there is no way for an outside observer to test whether or not you really do perceive it. So no experiment can be made to confirm it scientifically.

"As you point out, with Krishna Consciousness you follow a process and then you get a result, however my scientific colleagues would respond that it still fails the criteria for modern science because there is no falsifiability.

Interesting discussion, thanks for raising it...

As I understand it, Srila Prabhupada often referred to Krishna Consciousness as a science in the first sense also. That is, it can be objectively seen by a (qualified) outside observer. Unlike most religions where the aspirants progress is largely a matter of subjective faith, Krishna consciousness, especially as enunciated by the six gosvamis, gives a plethora of objective criteria that can be easily observed by (qualified) others.

For example, the level of kanistha adhikari is symptomised by seeing only (one's own) Deity in the temple as God, and not seeing the presence of God in others. This can also be translated as seeing one's own prophet or guru as divine, and all others as mundane, or possible even demoniac. This is a simpe example, but there are many more subtle nuances, as one passes through the obbjectively verifiable levels from sraddha to prema. Of course, these levels can only be perceived by those qualified to see them, but that is the same with all sciences.

I am not fully sure what you mean by falsifiability, but one thing that comes to mind is that we can see in any of the devotees who have had serious spiritual difficulty, that there was some area that they did not properly apply the science, and so did not get the desired result of the experiment. This also confirms the science.

Prabhupada sometimes offered in public lectures for people to just make an experiment and try Krishna consciousness and see if it works. However, the subtlety of Krishna consciousness is that as a spiritual science, it fully depends on the mentality of the practitioner. Krishna says to Arjuna that he can understand the science because he is not envious. So if someone did apply Krishna consciousness, but did not get the result, you could still point out to them that they did not actually follow the experiment of actually serving Krishna with love, and therefore they did not get the stated result of the Krishna conscious science.

That's the problem with the

That's the problem with the falsifiability aspect. It's never possible to say: "This doesn't work", because the explanation will always be: "That's because you didn't do it properly."

You cannot construct an experiment that will conclusively disprove it, because believers will always say: "You didn't do it right".

The reason for this, and the general point as to why Krishna Consciousness does not fit the definition of science, is because believers begin with the conclusion in mind (that Krishna Consciousness is real) and then interpret all data to fit that and preserve the pre-established conclusion.

To quote a co-worker from a discussion today:

Science: observe, collate, hypothesise, test, measure. If measure <> hypothesis, throw hypothesis out and start observing again.
Not Science: believe, observe, attack/deny observed things that contradict belief. Repeat ad infinitum.

Srila Prabhupada's attack on the moon landings fits that pattern. Irregardless of any evidence, the conclusion is that since they cannot have gone to the moon, they didn't, and we do not need to examine any evidence to prove it.

This is the same argument used against Galileo. Since the Earth cannot revolve around the Sun it does not, and there is no need to look through a telescope to prove it.

I'm not saying that the moon landings were not faked, what I'm saying is that Srila Prabhupada's conclusion that they were faked (if that was his conclusion) was not reached in a scientific manner.

This doesn't invalidate Krishna Consciousness. It just demonstrates that it's not scientific.

H.H. Hrdayananda Goswami put it like this, in a 2002 lecture I heard the other day: "The word science has some prestige in today's society, and we want to associate what we do with that prestige, so we call it a science".

It's comprehensive, consistent, systematic, and fully documented, but it's not scientific.

Recommended

Recommended reading:

Wikipedia on:

These are the things that you need to address to establish Krishna Consciousness as a "science", in the sense of the modern scientific paradigm.

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