Giridhari Prabhu, in a recent post entitled Homosexuality raises ethical and practical questions Part II, raises the issue of homosexual sannyasis (formally renounced celibate monks).
I happen to know a few, both closeted and out. Just the other day His Holiness BV Vaisnava Maharaja shared some of his realizations about being a gay sannyasi*. With his permission his words are reproduced below.
I've lived in Temples the whole time I've been a practising devotee - 23 years now. I was out to some and not to others due to like mindedness or the lack. There was the constant irony for the need to be honest so as to become purified from misconceptions and bodily identification while not being able to be out because of ignorance. To the extent I was out I grew spiritually. With those individuals I could not be honest with - I felt this compromised my ability to realise the tattva siddhanta, thus allowing bhakti to manifest in my heart. Now, I'm not deterred by someone else's limitations. I know factually that I am welcomed by the pure devotees and those who are swan-like in nature and not intimidated by those who are still ass-like and sectarian. The pure devotees are actually representative of our faith and they will never see us as mundane objects.While living in brahmacari ashrams I was out to the temple authorities and a few devotees who were supportive and focused on realising the self. Having been a gay rights activist in the 70's it is hard for me to not be out. I don't like being so political these days however, and as a sannyasi I'm supposed to be removed from sexuality, but I do see the need to be out for those who are newer to Krishna consciousness as an example of inclusion and possibility. My Gurudeva, Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Goswami, has supported me completely and has encouraged me to help other gay devotees. He didn't hesitate to give the service of temple president in England and now preaching globally as a sannyasi. While in these services I am mostly focused on the presentation and observance of this transcendental science I am also careful to always make it clear that no one is to be rejected because all are eternally servants of Krishna. I do mention gay people quite often as part of the equation and am always ready to come out where its helpful.
My Gurudeva's mercy far exceeds my qualifications of course but the point is that under the guidance of the pure devotees everyone is welcomed and delivered to Krishna. Those who are not Jagad Guru (Guru for all in the Universe) cannot help everyone who might come to them - at least not so well, so spiritually. Krishna will provide us with good, pure association if we sincerely desire it. He will also cheat us with bogus gurus if we are weak minded. Bhakti is a transcendental love of God that leaves the devotee fearless and thus cannot be cheated or satisfied with anything less than the beloved. No one will ever, ever be able to convince me that I cannot be a devotee because I was born gay in this life. I think I'm all the better for it actually. Srila Bhakti Raksak Sridhar Goswami used to say that "The environment is always favourable."
- H.H. BV Vaisnava Swami
I think this is a good example of a person who is able to be himself and be a devotee.
I know sannyasis in ISKCON who are of a "non-vanilla-heterosexual orientation", but the overall atmosphere in ISKCON right now is not one that allows them to come out publicly.
The first post that Giridhari made on this subject demonstrates why this is so. Philosophically, homosexuality is officially viewed as "deviant behaviour" in ISKCON, rather than an identity, and as a result it's frequently perceived and dealt with as something that constitutionally violates the organizations normative standards.
However, as Giridhari points out, increasingly it is understood as an identity - some people are just born gay, for whatever reason, just as some people are born white, black, yellow, male, female, intellectual, artistic, or whatever.
The usual response in ISKCON is to try to shunt these people out, or force them to hide their identity to avoid being shunted. As a result they are unable to find a legitimate way to participate as themselves, and get the support that they need. So when they try to participate they have to do it in a way that compromises their integrity and causes psychological stress.
At the moment we have a difficult situation. There are gay people. There are gay people in ISKCON. However, we insist on a policy of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell". As a result people end up in situations that they shouldn't be in. Instead of being able to be real about who they are and what they are doing, they are instead forced to hide it.
That's tamasic. Swami BV Tripurari makes the point in his Gita commentary that when you understand who you are, in terms of your temporary identity, and accept that and act accordingly, then that is in the mode of goodness. You'll be happy, you'll get realization. Those are the products of the mode of goodness.
The products of the mode of ignorance are madness and confusion. As long as we have an unspoken organizational policy that forces people to deny their identity in order to participate we are going to have these negative effects.
We have to let people be themselves and keep it real.
Personally I find the GALVA group facilitated by Amara Prabhu (ACBSP) to be a great resource for gay devotees to get association and good guidance.
Pamho, agtSP! I'm not very
Pamho, agtSP!
I'm not very impressed. I don't take instructions from Narayana Maharaja camp since he is blaspheming Srila Prabhupada and ISKCON swamis. Tripurari Swami is not in line with Prabhupada and has several times tried to reduce Prabhupada to a conditioned soul, for example in regard to his statements about women and intelligence.
Your servant,
Ajit Krishna Dasa
Learn your Guru-Tattva!!!!!
Sri Sri Guru Gauranga Jayatah!
Srila BV Narayana Goswami Maharaj ki jay!
Srila AC BV Swami Prabhupada ki jay!
Do you know why ISKCON is in such a terrible state now!? It is because your GBC of ISKCON have been commiting offences at the lotus feet of a Maha Bhagavata, Srila Narayana Maharaja, since around about 1978. That's about 32 years of offences. Your GBC does so much of wrong, is doing so much of wrong and they tell the ISKCON people "O, Narayana Maharaja is against our Prabhupada, he is blaspheming our Prabhupada and all of us" but if you know Srila Narayana Maharaja well, if you have read His books and heard His lecture's about Srila Prabhupada then you would know why your GBC is telling you these things. Srila Narayana Maharaja has never blasphemed Srila Prabhupada!!!!! They are affraid of losing their followers and disciples. It is true that Srila Narayana Maharaja does not have to poach disciples from ISKCON. It is Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and Srila Prabhupada that is taking them away from blasphemers and causing them to be attracted to Srila Narayana Maharaja. Wherever ther is a Maha Bhagavata, spiritually intelligent people will run to Him for shelter, it doesn't require much brain to understand this.
Like the one Prabhu said " If you do some research outside the cloisters of ISKCON,you will find that Srila Narayana Mhj has never blasphemed Srila Prabhupada".
This is what I did, my own open minded reasearch. And by the grace of Srila Prabhupada, I began to understand why ISKCON is in such a sad state.
Do you know that before Srila Prabhupada left this world, infront of many of His disciples and GBC disciples, He instructed Srila Narayana Maharaja to take care of all His disciples and followers after His departure. Also, after doing this, he turned to His disciples and gave direct instruction "listen to Narayana Maharaja". This is on vedio tape at Bhakitvedanta Archives. Uptil today the GBC of ISKCON has ignored these last instructions of Srila Prabhupada and have deviated from many other important instructions of Srila Prabhupada and have even changed His books. Because of personal ambition they have ended up putting words in Srila Narayana Maharaja's and Srila Prabhupada's mouth, A GREAT GREAT OFFENCE!
Srila Narayana Maharaja is following all the instructions of the past Acharyas perfectly. He has done all what Srila Prabhupada and His Gurudeva wanted Him to do. Please do your own research and see for yourself. You can start by reading Srila Narayana Maharaja's books:
1.The True Conception Of Sri Guru-Tattva
2. My Siksa Guru and Priya Bandhu
3. Letters from America
4. Jaiva Dharma by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur.
Also when learning about Guru-tattva please go all the way back to Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada. By doing this you will truly begin to understand Srila Prabhupada and Srila Narayana Maharaja and you will begin to truly see who is really deviating from the line of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada.
Also check this by a senior disciple of Srila Prabhupada: http://namahattapreachinggaudiyamatha.blogspot.com/2010/05/open-letter-to-gbc.html
Please note that Narayana Maharaja is treating gay people the same way Srila Prabhupada treated them! Again, do your own research!
Also, you are offending this sannyasi BV Vaishnava Maharaja but unlike your GBC members, he has followed, and is following all of Prabhupada's as well as Narayana Maharaja's instructions. Are you!? Doesn't seem like it to me. Normally when straight Vaishnavas speak like you... They are busy doing a lot of sinning quietly. Becarful! Krishna is watching!
From a straight Vaishnava!
Haribol!
Learn you Guru-Tattva!!!!!
Sri Sri Guru Gauranga Jayatah!
Srila BV Narayana Goswami Maharaj ki jay!
Srila AC BV Swami Prabhupada ki jay!
Do you know why ISKCON is in such a terrible state now!? It is because your GBC of ISKCON have been commiting offences at the lotus feet of a Maha Bhagavata, Srila Narayana Maharaja, since around about 1978. That's about 32 years of offences. Your GBC does so much of wrong, is doing so much of wrong and they tell the ISKCON people "O, Narayana Maharaja is against our Prabhupada, he is blaspheming our Prabhupada and all of us" but if you know Srila Narayana Maharaja well, if you have read His books and heard His lecture's about Srila Prabhupada then you would know why your GBC is telling you these things. Srila Narayana Maharaja has never blasphemed Srila Prabhupada!!!!! They are affraid of losing their followers and disciples. It is true that Srila Narayana Maharaja does not have to poach disciples from ISKCON. It is Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and Srila Prabhupada that is taking them away from blasphemers and causing them to be attracted to Srila Narayana Maharaja. Wherever ther is a Maha Bhagavata, spiritually intelligent people will run to Him for shelter, it doesn't require much brain to understand this.
Like the one Prabhu said " If you do some research outside the cloisters of ISKCON,you will find that Srila Narayana Mhj has never blasphemed Srila Prabhupada".
This is what I did, my own open minded reasearch. And by the grace of Srila Prabhupada, I began to understand why ISKCON is in such a sad state.
Do you know that before Srila Prabhupada left this world, infront of many of His disciples and GBC disciples, He instructed Srila Narayana Maharaja to take care of all His disciples and followers after His departure. Also, after doing this, he turned to His disciples and gave direct instruction "listen to Narayana Maharaja". This is on vedio tape at Bhakitvedanta Archives. Uptil today the GBC of ISKCON has ignored these last instructions of Srila Prabhupada and have deviated from many other important instructions of Srila Prabhupada and have even changed His books. Because of personal ambition they have ended up putting words in Srila Narayana Maharaja's and Srila Prabhupada's mouth, A GREAT GREAT OFFENCE!
Srila Narayana Maharaja is following all the instructions of the past Acharyas perfectly. He has done all what Srila Prabhupada and His Gurudeva wanted Him to do. Please do your own research and see for yourself. You can start by reading Srila Narayana Maharaja's books:
1.The True Conception Of Sri Guru-Tattva
2. My Siksa Guru and Priya Bandhu
3. Letters from America
4. Jaiva Dharma by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur.
Also when learning about Guru-tattva please go all the way back to Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada. By doing this you will truly begin to understand Srila Prabhupada and Srila Narayana Maharaja and you will begin to truly see who is really deviating from the line of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada.
Also check this by a senior disciple of Srila Prabhupada: http://namahattapreachinggaudiyamatha.blogspot.com/2010/05/open-letter-to-gbc.html
Please note that Narayana Maharaja is treating gay people the same way Srila Prabhupada treated them! Again, do your own research!
Also, you are offending this sannyasi BV Vaishnava Maharaja but unlike your GBC members, he has followed, and is following all of Prabhupada's as well as Narayana Maharaja's instructions. Are you!? Doesn't seem like it to me. Normally when straight Vaishnavas speak like you... They are busy doing a lot of sinning quietly. Becarful! Krishna is watching!
From a straight Vaishnava!
Haribol!
Ajit Krsna das' comment as regarda apparent blasphemy
Haribol,prabhu,
If you do some research outside the cloisters of ISKCON,you will find that Srila Narayana Mhj has never blasphemed Srila Prabhupada. The problem lies with ISKCON leaders lying to their followers about the activities of a pure devotee of Krsna.
They tell you not to attend Srila Narayana Mhj's classes because they are scared in case you see his sincerity and leave them. They accuse him of poaching disciples from ISKCON.
He does not need to do this.I would suggest that the ISKCON devotees leave this apparent issue to Krsna rather than try to be isvara.
Hey, I know BV Vaisnava
Hey, I know BV Vaisnava Maharaja is gay, but you should show more respect to a sannyasi than to refer to him as "Narayana Maharaja camp"... ;-)
parça kontör
I know BV Vaisnava Maharaja is gay