This week we are joined on the deck by a new guest, H.G Bhagavat Asraya Prabhu (ACBSP). We start talking about the recent discussion on chocolate, and Bhagavat Asraya points out another angle of vision addressing why people want to eat it. He also relates this to why people get into controversies (just take a look at the comments section of any site: controversy = comments).
Here is a link to the podcast of H.H. Sivarama Swami that is referred to in the podcast:
H.H. Sivarama Swami has a daily podcast and a regularly updated blog that is definitely worth bookmarking (or reading via ISKCON News.net).
We then segue into discussing a number of different issues.
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, whose appearance day we celebrated yesterday, once made a diorama depicting a brahmana cracking a nut with a salagram-sila. This display was a strong statement about the practice of co-opting spirituality and religion as a means for economic development. This provoked heavy protest by the brahmana community, some of whom took him to court over this, for slandering them. There they charged that the Gaudiya Vaisnava community was equally represented amongst those maintaining temples simply as a means of livelihood to maintain their families, so Srila Bhaktisiddhanta's criticism of the brahmanas was unjustified. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Thakura responded by saying: "Fine, let's put Gaudiya Vaisnava tilaka on him then!"
From this the brahmanas could understand that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta was not criticising them personally. He was not in any sense sectarian or partial to one group or another, but was in fact commenting on a particular mentality, no matter where it manifests.
Anyway, listen and enjoy. Leave a comment or send an audio comment.
- Episode 9, ogg version 85.61MB
- Episode 9, mp3 version 53.32MB
Thanks for another excellent
Thanks for another excellent podcast. Your discussion of varnasram raised an issue of particular interest to me: the renunciation of economic development required for brahmacari life. It seems that brahmacari asram is recommended, even if just for a year, as an important training period for anyone serious about krishna consciousness. This is, as you stated, against the general agenda of young adults today, to go out and make some bucks. Beyond this, it requires a situation of being economically unencumbered, which is increasingly not the case today. Someone with economic commitments cannot just ring up the bank and tell them they've renounced. Furthermore, if it is just a period of training, you don't want to give everything up only to emerge on the other side with nothing and build it all up again.
My point is this: in ideal varnasram, a brahman is a bramacari and then goes out as a grihasta to engage in economic development. In the west today, people are engaged in economic development, accumulate wealth, a career, education and so on, THEN come to krishna consciousness. What then?
Contemporary Vedic Ashram
DFJ, Glad you enjoyed it! :-)
In classical Vedic civilization children of the higher cultured classes, the brahmanas, ksatriyas, and vaisyas, go to live with a brahmana family (guru-kula) for some period of their life to be exposed to the spiritual nature and purpose of life in their formative years. They live as a brahmacari, one whose actions are in relation to brahman, or spiritual reality.
They also study various sciences related to the material energy. After this the ksatriya and vaisya children go to marry and engage in occupational activities. Most of the brahmanas also marry, but some percentage do not, and remain as life long renunciates.
In terms of today, we have the Contemporary Vedic Bachelor Ashram. You're single, you're working. You live with a brahmana (single or married) and other similiarly focused fellow travellers on the path, and you create a home environment that is intensely spiritualized and focused on education, training, and personal development (outreach is also an essential element), while you continue to responsibly support yourself during the day. Think of it as "putting yourself through a PhD degree doing part-time study".
Then after a few years of this you either opt for a tour of duty as a formal brahmacari in an ISKCON temple or travelling sankirtan party, or else start looking at getting married. Or you might want to extend this situation for a bit longer.
If you take the brahmacari tour of duty, you do that for some time and then re-evaluate your situation. From there you either move into married life, or else go all the way as a formal renunciant.
I recommend listening to these talks for more information:
http://www.atmayogi.com/?q=node/25
Thanks for your feedback and
Thanks for your feedback and advice. Certainly the contemporary vedic ashram model is there to support this arrangement to an extent, but this in a way also links into the brand identity of ISKCON you were talking about. Please forgive me if this is offensive, but based on my personal experience of dealing with my friends and colleagues the general attitude is "ISKCON = economic drop outs". Certainly the principles of a brahminical vedic culture cannot be compromised, but this kind of perception from the general public and the reality that underlies it is an issue for the brand of ISKCON. I don't say this with a motivation of criticism, but looking towards positive change. As i've begun to think more about university preaching, an issue to deal with is the question "this is great, but how does it affect my career?".
OK, so you set up a contemporary vedic ashram, and you get these students and young professionals off the street, clean them up, have them chanting and reading... then what? As Bhagavat Asraya Prabhu pointed out you need that ongoing care as a community of devotees, not a temple of devotees. To run with your part-time study analogy, what kind of organisation is required to care for the alumni?
Rinse, lather, and repeat
What we also thought of ISKCON before we "joined" is one thing. It's the delivery on the brand potential up to this point. What we now understand about ISKCON's underlying principles and potential is the brand promise. It's up to us to actualize that. The only way to change people's perception is to change the reality. We know what their perception is. Now let's do something about it.
As far as how this affects your career - perhaps it signals a career change. Are you totally satisfied that you are in the right place and headed in the right direction now? Maybe not. Perhaps it forbodes an additional dimension to your existing career path. Every individual situation is unique, but there are still broad patterns that you will learn to recognize over time.
Re: what comes next. From the initial steps described in the previous post, continue to build the community out based on the same principles. Focus on the people, not the programs. Empower people with knowledge and release them to do good and necessary work. The principles are sound, they just need to be correctly implemented.
I moved into a CVA in 1997. Now in 2007 I have a wife and child, and four other dependents who live with us. My personal realization i s that one should never live in a "house", but should always live in an "ashram". An ashram means a place of shelter - it's where you take shelter, and you give shelter. In other words, the alumni graduate to serve the students. Grhastas protect brahmacaris.
"Organization" means what you do and what you encourage others to do. That's all. Everything else comes from that.