I forget which former spice girl it was that sang that line, but it was a transparent attempt to become a gay nightclub icon ala Kylie.
Anyway, David Haslam's brought it up, and it's become a couple of threads (here and here) on Pariprasnena.com, so before I get on my plane to the US this morning I leave you with this, written a couple of months ago while I was on a retreat.
One further thing before we start, I've spent a lot of time and energy supporting gay, bisexual and transgendered people in Krishna Consciousness over the past ten years, and while it does require a lot of energy it can be done. Actually supporting heterosexual people in Krishna Consciousness requires a heck of a lot of energy too... Probably why I'm turning gray at 33, but anyway... it's a labour of love. :-)
Here we go - for better or worse, it's time for me to come out of the closet.
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Keeping It Real: Are You Gay?
Are you experiencing confusion over your sexual identity? Struggling within, while trying to maintain a stereotypical gender identity to fit in to the social expectations of the other devotees around you?
Over the past ten years, as both a person that others naturally gravitate towards for assistance and an official authority figure in ISKCON (I've been a local ISKCON official in Australia and Peru), I've had to help a significant number of people who are devotees, and who are struggling with their sexual identity.
Over this past year I've really gone deep into developing a coherent framework to work within, and to help these people to work within. The only book that has been written about this is "Tritiya Prakriti - People of the Third Sex", by Amara das ACBSP. Otherwise I'm not aware of much other discussion on the subject for ISKCON leaders to refer to. H.H. Hrdayananda Goswami's recent piece on Gay Marriage is a significant departure from this historical silence on the subject.
I personally use the term "Gender Ambiguity" rather than terms such as Third Sex, or LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgendered), when discussing this with people who come to me for assistance. The reason for this is that people are generally in a state of confusion when they approach me, and it's important to give them clarity within uncertainty, without pushing them into any kind of box before they can understand who they are.
The conceptual model I use is one based on the Bhagavad-gita. We have both a gross and subtle body. This is explained in the 15th chapter. The body is made up of a mixture of elements with different natures. We can say that among the elements there are both purusa and prakrti - masculine and feminine natures. Female bodies obviously have more prakrti and male bodies have more purusa. However we can see that some bodies are more feminine than others. Similarly the mind has a composition which has masculine and feminine elemental composition. We see that some women are very feminine. Others are tomboys. Some guys are really macho, others are more effeminate.
People are individuals with a unique makeup. They lie along a continuous spectrum with arbitrary "bands" that we categorise in certain ways. Some people lie on the edges of these bands. For whatever reason, the mind and the body do not always reflect the same elemental composition. Some people are born with a body that is masculine, but with a mind that has more feminine elemental composition, or the opposite, a female body with a masculine mind.
There are also people who develop psychological dysfunction due to trauma and abuse, but this is a different case from the guna level identity that we are discussing here. Observation and experience will have also shown you this, if you've seen children who were obviously "different" from a young age, and then ended up gay or some other gender identity as an adult. These are the people that we're discussing here.
When dealing with persons who have developed gender ambiguity due to trauma and abuse at a young age in this lifetime there is a lot of other psychological dysfunction that you have to address. The psychological dysfunction of the person with the "mixed body and mind" situation at a guna level, however, primarily arises from their inability to conceptualise themselves within a philosophical, psychological, and social framework.
Tomboys are generally frowned upon. What to speak of someone who is essentially mentally a man inhabiting a woman's body, and feels the necessity of the companionship of a female-minded person. Likewise for someone who is a woman in a man's body, yearning for the companionship of someone who can provide for their emotional and psychological necessities. Add to this the common human need for community and social acceptance, and you have the ingredients for serious suffering and social / psychological dysfunction.
Amara das explains in his writing that 5% of the human population are "intersexed", that they have some gender condition that is not straight-forward male or female. Modern sociologists have developed a model that identifies 7 different genders. My experience and personal observation is that the percentage in ISKCON is significantly higher than 5%. Amara das explained to me that this is because these people are more attracted to spirituality. Another possible explanation is that they are attracted to a philosophy that explains that they are not the body or the mind, and that offers a path of transcendence of what is essentially a very uncomfortable and confusing situation. Perhaps these two are the same thing.
ISKCON and its general membership have not yet developed an acceptable conceptual framework within which to deal with these people. Our conceptualisation of gender ambiguity owes much to the society we come from, with its Judeo-Christian model of "sin", rather than a clear understanding of psychology based on the philosophical elements of guna and karma.
In his book Tritiya-Prakriti, Amara das presents a solid case on the basis of Vedic scripture and historical reference, that the modern Judeo-Christian understanding does not match the ecumenical approach of the Vedic civilisation, where such people were understood for what they were and accommodated in a stable social structure that allowed them to progress from where they are, as what they are.
My personal observation, again, is that many persons have attempted to sublimate their sexual identity and play the external role of the Judeo-Christian-influenced stereotypes that we presently hold in ISKCON, and as a result they have distorted the social fabric of our society, and eventually met with individual psychological breakdown.
One of the effects of "criminalising" an identity is that we create a underworld subculture within our society characterized by dishonesty. Make no mistake about it: a number of people are living double lives within our society. Unfortunately their coping strategy has created a layer of misdirection and deception. Many other undesirable elements then take shelter of that structure. We need to keep a transparent and honest social structure, keeping it real. Forcing people into deceptive identities creates an unhealthy dynamic, especially when they rise to leadership positions.
There is nothing to be gained in faking it. If people had been able to be humble and courageous, and honest about what they are and where they are at, many of the social disasters we have experienced would not have happened. We don't do anyone any favours by creating a social atmosphere of repression and unrealistic expectations, meaning ideals which don't map to actual individual realities. We have ideals for some classes of people, but we're trying to apply them to everyone. Celibacy is indeed our common ideal, from complete abstinence, to pro-creation only, to monogamous relationship, depending on which you have the adhikara for at a particular point in time. Keep it real and be happy. One particular form of conditioned sexual identity is not our ideal. Being what you are and regulating your senses while executing the process of bhakti-yoga is our program.
Right now within ISKCON there is more acceptance for a promiscuous heterosexual than there is for a celibate gay. That's a philosophical problem manifesting in the social structure. In the current environment it's a challenge to "come out" in ISKCON. The general mass of people in ISKCON are not ready for it, having no conceptual model to work with apart from the idea of "sin". People's activities may be inappropriate, but we cannot condemn people's identity. If someone has a "gender ambiguous" identity (it's not ambiguous to them - it's actually very clear, it's just not a clear-cut case of male body male mind, or female body female mind) then this cannot be condemned, any more than we can condemn a person for being born with dark skin (a "Bahuka"), or as a women (papa-yonayah). Unfortunately, both of these have been condemned in ISKCON history, with the attendant dysfunction of the society as a result of the underlying mentality of this condemnation.
So if you are out there struggling with your identity and your desire to become a devotee, and I know you are because I have dealt with so many of you in the past decade, then know that you are not alone. There are many others like you struggling to figure out who they are and struggling to fit in somehow. There are others out there who feel your pain. My advice is to keep praying with sincerity and focus on being yourself and making a contribution. Work to build a support network of understanding and supportive people. You are not looking for people to support you in a particular activity, you are looking for people to support you in a particular identity. You are a spirit soul, servant of Krishna, with a particular body and mind through which your service is currently manifested. Accept your body and mind for what they are and dedicate them to the service of the Lord. Whoever you meet, tell them about Krishna. Regulate your senses and their activities under guidance. Cultivate a relationship with Krishna's Holy Name, and your temporary and eternal identities will become increasingly clear to you.
Haribol, thank you for
Haribol, thank you for posting this wonderful article. Associating only with women, I don't have any direct experience of this issue, but feel that the prime concern should be to encourage people in Krishna Conscious, not to focus on changing their bodily desires.
A sannyasi sent along these questions
If as Sitapati says there are so many "gender ambiguous" persons in ISKCON
then how to deal with them is an important question. What does sastra say?
How did Srila Prabhupada deal with them?
Yes, how to deal with these
Yes, how to deal with these people is a very important question. Amara das' book is an important part of the conversation. I think that anyone who wishes to establish a position on this issue must read and comment on this book in order to really get in the game. It's the "gold standard of gay sastra" right now.
How are we to understand
How are we to understand this verse and purport on the topic?
"Lord Brahma, approaching the Lord, addressed Him thus: My Lord, please protect me from these sinful demons, who were created by me under Your order. They are infuriated by an appetite for sex and have come to attack me."
PURPORT
It appears here that the homosexual appetite of males for each other is created in this episode of the creation of the demons by Brahma. In other words, the homosexual appetite of a man for another man is demoniac and is not for any sane male in the ordinary course of life. [SB 3.20.26]
Candidasa dasa
There are two ways to
There are two ways to interpret this verse and purport that are harmonious with what I have said.
1. The purport begins with the words: "It appears..." The word appear can mean:
or it can mean:
If we take first meaning as the meaning for this purport (to "seem"), then it renders the second sentence (beginning with "in other words...") also "seeming".
Many people will be uncomfortable with this method.
2. Being gay is simply a demoniac species of life. You just have to live with it, as Bali Maharaja and Vrtrasura lived in a demoniac situation, and be Krishna Conscious, transcending your (demoniac) material identity.
Most gay people will be unhappy with this method until they substantially realize their identity beyond the body. Therefore I would probably use method one to help people get started and get to the point where it becomes irrelevant to them.
You know, we don't really go around preaching that women and black people are "inferior to white men", or at least I don't, although you could make a good cut-and-paste article for it from Gita and Bhagavatam verses and Srila Prabhupada's purports.
(Posted from Atlanta Georgia - I've chanted my rounds, slept somewhat, and I'm about to rock out to Andy Stanley's church.)
Re: How are we to understand
My personal understanding of this verse is that it refers to "males in the ordinary course of life," i.e., heterosexuals. For heterosexuals to engage in homosexual behavior, against their nature, is certainly demonic and a type of insanity.
To apply this verse to people born with homosexual orientation, on the other hand, is taking it out of context. The demons mentioned in this verse are clearly heterosexual and demonstrate their lust for women at the end of the narration.
ISKCON guru and GBC leader Hridayananda Maharaja gives a thorough analysis of this verse, including commentaries given by previous acaryas, in his article: "Vaishnava Moral Theology and Its Application on the Issue of Homosexuality", which can be accessed at the following link:
http://www.galva108.org/Moral_Theology.pdf
-Amara
When I first read this, and
When I first read this, and I've read Amara prabhu's take on this several times before in other places, and even this time that I saw it here, I did not process it. It seemed to me to be a strained interpretation motivated by a desire to squeeze a particular understanding out.
However, after doing my own analysis of this verse and purport at Candidasa's prompting, and then being emailed and queried about my take on Amara das' personal realization, I spent some time actually thinking about it.
I think that Amara das' position could be restated:
Persons who have a homosexual identity are not persons in the "ordinary course of life"
I think that this would not be argued with by most people. The issue of whether homosexuality is an identity or simply an action is a key point here.
Since the purport states:
What it would mean is that for a person who has a heterosexual identity, homosexual urges represent a form of insanity.
Within the framework of this understanding the verse does not speak to persons born with a homosexual identity. Again, the issue revolves around this one key point: "Is homosexuality an identity (guna), or merely a type of action (karma)?"
Amara das' entire argument rests on the premise that homosexuality is at least sometimes a question of identity, and not simply an activity. If there can be such a thing as a "celibate homosexual" then this validates his idea.
Otherwise, "homosexual equals homosex", if the identity is generated by karma, and not by guna. This is the underlying assumption that informs a lot of discussion of homosexuality in ISKCON (and in modern western society), is behind the idea of popular idea of reforming homosexuals to become heterosexuals, and behind the idea that homosexuality, as an orientation, in itself (not just illicit sex) is a sin.
If we understand homosexuality as an identity, then we might agree that homosexual birth is a "sinful birth" (papa-yonayah), as per the standard of Bhagavad-gita, just like black people and women. This means that a person has been born into a difficult social situation as a reaction to their actions in their previous life. However, only homosex (illicit sex) would be judged as inherently sinful (generating further negative reactions), and homosexuality as an identity or material conditioning, would be viewed in the same way as being a woman or a black person. A life beset with social difficulties and complications, but not inherently condemned.
Please note that this essentially maps to number two of my two possible interpretations given above. None of these interpretations contradict Vaisnava principles of sambandha (relationship between matter, spirit, and the Supreme Lord) or abhideya (process of self realization), or contradict Srila Prabhupada's words.
Again, really to defeat this position what is necessary is to establish that homosexuality represents an activity that is acquired and can be given up in this lifetime, like meat-eating, illicit sex, and intoxication, and is not an inherent conditioned identity, like heterosexuality.
sane and ordinary course of life?
What if we are light years away from a sane and ordinary course of life? What is Prabhupada referring to, our current Kali yuga situation which he denounced as demoniac? What if homosexuality is a way that many souls have taken to cope with this demoniac lifestyle that we are living? What if that sane and ordinary course of life that Prabhupada is referring to is something we can only dream of right now.
Re: Keeping It Real: Are You Gay?
This was a very thoughtful article, Sita-pati Prabhu. Your intelligence and geniune spiritual concern for others shines through magnificently.
Having been in ISKCON for thirty-three years now, I also have quite a bit of experience knowing and counseling gay Vaishnavas, especially over the past six years as president of GALVA. I actually see very little confusion in terms of whether or not the person is gay. I'd say about 90% of the devotees I speak with have clearly known they were gay since the earliest age. The confusion, in my experience, involves how to share this psychophysical reality with others and overcome all the negative homophobia and social alienation.
In any case, your points of "keeping it real" and being honest with others as well as one's self are important. If we don't begin from there, nothing else will be achievable. Honesty and truthfulness are essential in Vaishnavism.
In regard to Amalagaura's posting, I also have a lot of experience dealing with gay devotees who are Indian and living in India. In fact, I'd say I answer about five letters each day dealing with all types of questions and situations involving homosexuality. From my perspective, homosexuality is either more rampant in India or definitely more problematic. Effeminate gay men are rarely appreciated in modern Hindu culture and nearly all masculine-type homosexuals are forced into opposite sex marriages. This consequently leads to all kinds of dishonesty ("Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive!"), self-deception, depression, and dangerous underground liaisons. I hear about this all the time, much more than from Western devotees.
In terms of problematic upbringings, this depends on many factors. An effeminate gay boy is much more likely to have difficulties growing up than a masculine one. Family and social support/acceptance are also crucial. Ironically, gay children raised in strongly religious or fundamentalist-type settings are much more likely to experience rejection, self-hate, depression and suicidal thoughts. I really don't give any credance to the notions of "curing" or "changing" a person's sexual orientation (neither does the APA) and see it more as hoping against hope. Homosexual orientation is determined by the feminization or masculinization of our brains very early during fetal development, much like left- or right-handedness. It is definitely not something that can be "hypnotized" away! Sure, we can teach people to suppress their life-long feelings and emotions, but is that always a good thing? And yeah, bisexuals can fluctuate between men and women, causing them to go back and forth as well as to express confusion. But that's not the same as exclusive homosexuality.
All in all, everyone is to be loved, appreciated and engaged in Krsna's service according to their natural abilities. Homosexuality, like heterosexuality, has been a fact for thousands of years and becomes a problem only because humans over-focus on sex. For too many devotees, a person's sexuality is more important than Krsna seated within their heart!
Vaishnava das anudas,
Amara dasa
PS - Would you consider posting your article on Chakra or Dandavats.com? I think many devotees would appreciate and learn from it.
homosexuals in society
We are seeing a huge liberalisation of society in the past few decades where issues like this are coming out.
The concern that many have is how much to condone such behavior. Should it be normalized and introduced to society as an acceptable part of society?
Is it a healthy lifestyle? We can take some liberty and say it is healthy for some, but should that be introduced as an acceptable model of behavior or lifestyle?
I have not read Amara prabhu's article, but Vedic society permitted many things.
I think if Krishna Consciousness expands and children are treated with sufficient love when they are growing up, there will be only extremely miniscule cases of homosexual tendencies when they grow up. Prabhupada suggested 25 year old males get married to 16 year old girls, I wonder what kind of past karma one would have to reject that proposal.
As for the APA not condoning the "curing" of homosexuality. They are not too much of an authority for me. A hypnotist or hypnotherapist would not try to hypnotize away such behavior. If he was approached for help, that is they key! If a hypnotherapist was approached he could help take the person back to traumatic incidents and take away the trauma attached with the event. That is the ideal course. If someone did try to hypnotize away homosexual tendencies, then you are right it would not work. The mind can be trained to do a lot of things though.
Re: homosexuals in society
Hare Krsna, Amalagaura Prabhu!
Personally, I feel that persons born with homosexual orientation should be treated the same as we treat all others. Homosexuals should be encouraged to follow celibacy, or, if they cannot do this, they should be encouraged to live within a faithful, monogamous same-sex marriage outside the temple. We should always encourage renunciation but at the same time realize that people can only do their best.
Homosexuality is not a mere "tendency" caused by poor upbringing in childhood! It is a fixed, neurological condition caused by feminization or masculinization of the brain during early fetal development. You mention that the APA is not an authority for you, but they have studied and researched thousands upon thousands of homosexual persons. For instance, they have found that over 95% of homosexuals have heterosexual siblings--brothers and sisters raised by exactly the same parents and within exactly the same environment! How can we say, therefore, that homosexuality was somehow caused by poor upbringing during childhood? That is an old wive's tale, actually.
Homosexual orientation can be found equally in all races, countries and cultures of the world. It occurs within wealthy, poor, educated, uneducated, religious and non-religious families. The fact that homosexuality occurs within all cultures of the world and indeed, throughout the animal kingdom, should give us some clue about its biological origins. It is a fact of nature and should not be treated like some unwanted disease or symptom of Kali-yuga. Homosexuals can be valued by society and engaged in the service of Krsna just like anyone else.
Your servant,
Amara dasa
get it while it's hot
I think this is a very nice article and I think it is great that devotees are being thoughtful about this after dealing with devotees who face such real problems in their lives.
I personally think that a person's greater or lesser femininity / masculunity is not enough to justify a continued life of homosexuality. I am primarily basing this on observations in India. There because people are for the most part brought up with more love and support, a man with more feminine tendencies would not embrace homosexuality in normal circumstances.
In my opinion, it is a man with more feminine tendencies who is also abused or has a problematic childhood who would have to take refuge in homosexuality. You do refer to this in your article, and I think we can agree that is a convoluted mixture for most people.
A hypnotherapist in India also broke it down in similar categories as you do and said he could "help" or "cure" some types of homosexuals but others were just too fixed in their nature. They also would not approach a therapist for help because it was too much a part of their nature.