Why give an explanation when you can use organizational pressure to silence people?
A concerned reader wrote to me about Pandu's recent posts on Planet ISKCON, and referred to them as "ritvik stuff". Here is the reply I sent:
"You know the truth of religion, and you are speaking according to the principle that the destination intended for the perpetrator of irreligious acts is also intended for one who identifies the perpetrator."
- Srimad Bhagavatam 1.7.22
It is a mistake to identify with any -ism. When someone has personal difficulties in their relationships with other persons or with an organisation, sometimes they may take shelter of a pre-packaged philosophical position. All -isms are fossilized thought. Although they may identify with that, we do not help them by identifying with it ourselves.
How many times have you been on sankirtan and you start to describe something, and a Christian says: "Oh, I know what that is, it's 'idol worship'", or some other stereotypical conception.
It would be a mistake for him to identify with an -ism such as ritvikism, and it would be a mistake for others to draw up battlelines by saying: "Oh, I know what this is - this is that", and casting Pandu in that role.
Pandu is having difficulty integrating his personal experience, his expectations, and his understanding of the ideals of the organisation.
If someone wants to address this situation, then my suggestion is that the "anti-ritvikism" people, whoever they may be, need to start by explaining exactly what happened with H.H. Bhakti Tirtha Swami's disappearance, the participation of H.G. Vakresvara Pandit, and the Child Protection Office ruling against him.
Instead of giving a public, reasoned explanation of that, "the organisation" responded to Pandu by using coercive methods. Everything has followed from there.
Call me a heretic, but I think that the issues around H.H. Bhakti Tirtha's disappearance pastimes and the participation of HG Vakresvara Pandit should by explained. I have not seen an explanation. What is the difficulty? Where is the brahminical response?
What are you advocating to me now? That I should also respond to Pandu with censorship, threats, ostracism? I think that someone should step into the obvious leadership vacuum around this issue and explore the issues around what happened at Gita Nagari, and the way it was handled.
Along with Pandu, I also think that an explanation is due. However, I'm not going to take shelter of any -ism as a result, and I'm not sure if that is what he is doing. But he has to maintain his integrity somehow in the face of the reaction to his requests for explanation...
Lock step conformity with the prevailing organisational mindset leads to Nazi Germany and 80's ISKCON. Sorry, but Planet ISKCON is not a propaganda piece - it's about real people having a real experience of Krishna Consciousness.
"Why give an explanation when you can use organizational pressure and name-calling to silence people" is an extremely dangerous position to adopt. If someone blows a whistle and there really is nothing to see, then just explain the situation transparently. When the response appears to be a massive shutdown of all dialog, it creates the impression that actually there is something wrong.
And Pandu, just be careful about how you present things, because "ritvik" is the new "commie", and the issue risks transforming away from what happened at Gita Nagari to how you are becoming a public exponent of a particular organizational ideology.
Oh yeah, and if you want to know why ritvikism arose as an ideology, you're looking at a microcosm of its birth right here. It's a reaction to this organizational dynamic.
- sitapati's blog
- Login or register to post comments




Why would anyone adopt a
Why would anyone adopt a position like that. In my opinion people should not harm anyone. Our souls should be innocent as a child.
Oferte de cazare in Bucuresti
pressure to silence
Firstly thank you for your very insightful thoughts on this matter; it appears that within the organizational grouping there is some difficulty in explaining when challenged or questioned.
We see also how our founding Acharia if challenged or questioned over something was more than able to answer, even when the individual and especially his own god-brothers were highly critical; but as an organization this lesson appears lost.
Last year I was traveling with a group of devotees from Wales to London, England (for those not in the know this is a different country) I was astonished to hear his reason for no longer going to the local preaching center.
Unfortunately he had asked about the Ritvik situation as he felt to him it made sense but wished to know more. However rather than a simple answer he was confronted with an ultimatum; he had to sign several documents stating he would never question or mention or adhere to the ritvik philosophy or he will not be allowed back into the center as these questions causes a disturbance.
So I explained in detail my understanding as presented by several of Prabhupada's disciples and he was actually very appreciative of the time taken to explain the different views. That was all he needed was to satisfy his mind and aid understanding, but as an organization silencing and high pressure tactics was applied; and get we wonder why so many leave ISKCON for other sampradias.
Or worse our inability to answer questions kills the fledgling devotee who's mind is not still full of questions by our own foolishness and inability to answer the questions put forward; an inability to convince then that this devotional path is the right way. By showing an unsympathetic and bullying tactic not seen or demonstrated by our founder acharia who simply defeated the person by simply presenting the facts and removing all shadow of doubt that the mind throws up.
But then I too an under great pressure and my own personal thoughts written in my blog has been under attack, even the threat that I will never be initiated made for my questioning; but thats another story and won't I feel add anything.
But what would help is as you state a simple answer to questions and a statement of facts as they are, presented sincerely; this was the example given by Srila Prabhupada isn't it better as an organization that we follow his example; rather than school yard bully boy tactics?
Yes it was years ago, but it
Yes it was years ago, but it was dealt with badly at the time, and still hasn't been addressed, and Pandu's current predicament is a consequence of that.
I also think an explanation is necessary. There has to be some counter-narrative around it. If Pandu writes a public narrative and there is no "philosophical", "brahminical" response where someone else writes some words to tell the story and how it fits together, and instead organizational pressure is used to silence dialog, then that's a failure of the organization.
I'm not going to forget about the lack of narrative around it by scrubbing Pandu from the history books. Someone needs to write the history. That's what brahmanas are for.
Hare Krishna Prabhu, Most
Hare Krishna Prabhu,
Most know that the circumstances surrounding this event were absolutely exceptional. Maharaja allowed Vakresvara Das to sing to him because he was about to leave his body at any moment (which subsequently happened). They were Godbrothers, intimate associates, lifelong friends. One was dying and one was assisting in the transition by way of chanting the Maha-mantra. Maharaja died very much in the public eye and allowed all to witness his death, he was inclusive of his intimate Godbrother Vakresvara Prabhu due to compassion, nothing more. There was no conspiring going on.
"Even if one commits the most abominable action, if he is engaged in devotional service he is to be considered saintly because he is properly situated in his determination." - BG 9.30
"Whatever state of being one remembers when he quits his body, that state he will attain without fail." - BG 8.6
Allowing Vakresvara Das to sing was not an act of public defiance towards ISKCON or victims of abuse. To even suggest that is very distasteful. Maharaja spent every aspect of his life dedicated to Srila Prabhupada's mission and was a strong campaigner for the protection of women, children and the elderly.
"Remain chaste to Srila Prabhupada's movement, but not sectarian. We are to remain loyal to Srila Prabhupada's ISKCON, but to respect all other Vaisnavas." - HH BT Swami
"Go the extra mile with regards to the care and protection of women and children. The Bhagavatam mentions that when elders, brahmanas, cows, women and children are not protected, not only does the individual who doesn't do those things suffer, but the whole society or community suffers." - HH BT Swami
Pandu Prabhu posted a query on the BT Swami List (A Yahoo Group for Disciples and Well Wishers) soon after Maharaja's death inquiring as to why Maharaja had allowed Vakresvara Das to sing despite being banned. Some found the question 'loaded' and its timing abhorrent due to the fact that his disciples were grieving.
After all this time I wonder what Pandu Das' motive was when he posted this comment regarding HH BT Swami, it obviously had massive consequences regarding his personal life. Was he sincerely wanting to be a voice for innocent victims and a bringer of justice to those with gross oversights? Or, was he more inclined to evoke community discord due to some personal insecurity?
For reflection, I leave you with the following statement from HH BT Swami, "Place more emphasis on having loving Vaisnava relationships. See all interactions as a cry for love or an extension of love."
your servant,
Krishnapada dasa.
Please, Krishnapada Prabhu;
Please, Krishnapada Prabhu; Gita-nagari is my community. I have a house and a farm here with my family, and we plan to live here for decades. Why would I want to create trouble? I was on the community board, and my wife on the child protection team. There are a lot of girls in our community, and Vakresvara did not seem like a safe person. The first time I spoke to him, the night Bhakti Tirtha Swami passed away, he verbally assaulted me while I was helping to extinguish the fires that lined the path through the woods. He was angry that people were concerned about the fires, unmindful of the fact that it had not rained in three weeks. Seeing his anger, I offered him my humble obeisances, and he rejected it. He told me, "You can keep your obeisances." I'm sorry but I did not think Vaisnavas acted that way.
My wife and I had been trying to address our concerns through the "proper channels" for several weeks, at least two months, and gotten nowhere, before I wrote on the BTSwamil group. I purposely waited until after your guru's death to avoid disturbing him. I know the timing was difficult, but I was not the one who invited someone who was otherwise prohibited from coming because he would not apologize to the child he raped. When I finally sent that e-mail, I was threatened and condemned by your godbrothers. Your guru's disciples at Gita-nagari would not look at me and my family. Most of the Gita-nagari board members lied to me as they were having secret meetings to develop a plan to impeach me from the board, which I learned of when they gave me papers to sign. They secretly called my guru, who also lied to me to keep me from knowing about their conversations. He stopped my training for second initiation because I was documenting these unsavory events on my blog. It's likely that I will never get second initiation on account of this.
I had been thoroughly fired up before Bhakti Tirtha Swami came in the spring of 2005, six months later I was so broken on account of the "mercy" he was giving to Vakresvara that I felt like the ghost of a demon for the next year and a half, unable to chant at all. Before I left the devotees' association, I went to the temple and cried for an hour and a half at the feet of your guru's picture and chair, praying for his forgiveness until I was merged into a puddle of tears and snot on the floor and the pujari came off the altar and escorted me out. He promised me three times that he would write a letter on my behalf to your godfamily to help me make peace with them, but he never followed through. All I could think about Krishna for more than a year was that if the devotees despised me then Krishna must despise me too. In all that time, not one of your godfamily called or wrote to ask if we were ok. Neither has any of them offered me an apology even after I begged forgiveness from everyone.
If Vakresvara was "saintly" and "properly situated in his determination," why did he ignore the rectification plan given by the CPO? Why was he staying up past curfew with young ladies even while he was at Gita-nagari then? (The temple president admitted that fact to me.) Why were he and his friends describing the girl he abused with filthy names? Why does the mercy go to the middle-aged bachelor, child predator, still hanging with girls half his age, while his victim is ignored and a responsible family man and his family, trying to protect the community's children, gets trampled into the dust? We were not even told Vakresvara had a record. I could go on and on, but I suppose it would just be a waste of time.
But of all things, the notion that I would want to create discord in my community where I had moved to raise my family, that is beyond belief. I'm insulted. I dreaded what was happening every moment, but I have integrity that I could not compromise. I was told that Bhakti Tirtha Swami was a pure devotee, and I was beside myself thinking he would be leaving when I hardly knew him. I was offering him service whenever I could, just to please Krishna and Srila Prabhupada. Still, my wife and I had our duty to look out for the community, and a known child molester had come, invited, at his request. For crying out loud, this was just a few months after we had to auction off so much farm equipment to pay for the child abuse lawsuit! The irony was splitting my head and made me sick for half a year. What to speak of the girl Vakresvara abused... Any one of the former gurukulis could look at the fact that ISKCON was apologizing for child abuse while two big gurus were lavishly glorifying an unrepentant child molester. And you want to blame it on what you imagine is my "personal insecurity!" I don't even know you. Hare Krishna.
Be bold be strong
Although I do not know all the facts of which you speak, this I do know...quote
"all that it takes for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing"
Sounds to me like you are a good man doing something. Even if we do something and it's not suiting everyone, we must press on to open up and stamp out the evil that is done in secret towards the little ones.
For too long people sweep under the carpet such activities because it is sickening and distasteful for us to acknowledge. This is exactly what a child abuser relies on, timid people. "Be bold, be strong, for the Lord thy God is with thee" There is no two ways about it, such abuse where ever it is, is evil and destructive to the very core of ones being, and only Gods healing Spirit can renew the damage done.
It takes much courage to go against the status-quo of look the other way, hush keep it in house because we may be implicated or embarrassed.
We may make mistakes and offend people when we speak out. But lets face it the act is shocking, but speak out we must. In my book you are a HERO
Loving kindness and regards to YOU
"Place more emphasis on
"Place more emphasis on having loving Vaisnava relationships. See all interactions as a cry for love or an extension of love."
I wonder if this approach had been taken towards Pandu when he posted his question on the BT Swami list, what the outcome might have been?
Regardless of speculations of his personal motive, Pandu's question is a valid one. Further, to my understanding he was a member of the farm's Child Protection Team, in which case to ask a question like this would be his duty; although arguably inexpertly executed, perhaps due to lack of training, experience, and even arguably maturity in interpersonal relationships.
Exceptions to legal frameworks (the CPO is part of ISKCON's legal framework) require explanation and justification, if they are not to become a precedent for illegal action, and undermine the legal framework itself. I have not seen such an explanation or clarification of the legal aspects and ramifications of this situation, to date. Was it an exception to the legal framework? If so, in what circumstances is such a exception justified? These are questions that need to be considered and discussed by brahamanas.
"Whatever actions a great man performs, the common man follows. Whatever standards he sets through exemplary acts, the whole world pursues"
- Bhagavad-gita 3.21
Pandu works professionally as an environmental protection officer, so he is very conscious of the value of legal frameworks as protective measures - it is his job every day to ensure that they are complied with.
My own way of interpreting the situation is the same as your own, however the issue is the way in which the public dialog around it is carried out. I have seen posts that Pandu has written about it; are there any posts or articles available that have been written in response, perhaps by Maharaja's disciples, explaining the situation?
I've waited five years to pop the question - hopefully that should be enough time to look at the situation with some objectivity.
Thank you for writing this
Thank you for writing this sensitive and thoughtful article, Sitapati Prabhu.
Although I have never met either you or Pandu Prabhu personally, I believe both of you to be high quality individuals, with great personal integrity, and strong sincerity for spiritual life.
One observation I noted from this was the harsh way that Vakesvara treated Pandu. I have noticed and also personally experienced verbal abuse from senior devotees, "Prabhupada disciples", towards younger devotees, as if they have some kind of elitist complex. On the other hand, I have met many Srila Prabhupada disciples who also support the ritvik position, and they seemed a bit more humble. They didn't seem to put themselves up on a pedestal, "I'm a big Prabhupada disciple and you are a young neophyte devotee and thus I can abuse and control you all I want". The ritvik position makes quite a lot of sense if you think about it from many angles. Madhu Pandit Prabhu's proposal that those who want to follow an ISKCON guru should be allowed to do so, and those who want to follow Srila Prabhupada as their guru should also be allowed to do so, and in this way there can at least be peace. That seems to be the best solution to the present problems that many are raising about ISKCON's gurus. A live and let live policy.
But to demonize anyone is totally wrong. Yes, I also am guilty of that. I demonized the "feminists" and "liberals" in the past, and although some of my points were valid, a lot of them were not and resulted in many people becoming offended. We should have clear headed discussion, and that means that ISKCON's leaders need to stop demonizing the ritviks. Also, various sections of the ritvik party need to stop demonizing ISKCON's gurus as well. Both sides are to blame. Until both sides become humble, clear headed dialogue with one another will not be possible.
vaisnava dasa,
Caitanya dasa
"'Place more emphasis on
"'Place more emphasis on having loving Vaisnava relationships. See all interactions as a cry for love or an extension of love.'
I wonder if this approach had been taken towards Pandu when he posted his question on the BT Swami list, what the outcome might have been?"
-------------------
exactly what i wanted to write after seeing krsnapada's comment, but then electricity went off and sita-pati came first.
it's easy to apply such high-spirited quotes to one's guru; certainly more difficult to apply them to people who criticize one's guru, or who appear to do so. but wouldn't the guru be even more pleased if we managed to do that?
these events with vakresvara pandit and how they were handled certainly had a large and destructive influence on pandu's life and relationship with ISKCON. it's a pity none of the concerned parties seem to give a damn about it, including his diksa-guru.
Satsvarupa Maharaja: Then
Satsvarupa Maharaja: Then our next question concerns initiations in the future... when you are no longer with us. We want to know how... initiations would be conducted.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes. I shall recommend some of you... I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating acharya.
Tamala Krsna Maharaja: Is that called rtvik-acharya?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes.
(Conversation, May 28, 1977)
Three years later in 1980, Tamala Krishna Goswami admitted that Srila Prabhupada had appointed them as ritviks only, NOT as regular diksa gurus, in a conversation with his godbrothers in Topanga Canyon, California on December 3, 1980. Here is an excerpt from that conversation:
Tamal Krishna Goswami: "Actually, Prabhupada never appointed any gurus. He didn't appoint eleven gurus. He appointed eleven ritviks. He never appointed them gurus. Myself and the other GBC have done the greatest disservice to this movement the last three years because we interpreted the appointment of ritviks as the appointment of gurus. What actually happened was that Prabhupada mentioned that he might be appointing some ritviks, so the GBC went to Prabhupada- 5 or 6 of us. We asked him, "Srila Prabhupada, after your departure, if we accept disciples, whose disciples will they be, your disciples or mine?" So Prabhupada said, "I will appoint so many...", and he started to name them. He made it very clear that they're his (Srila Prabhupada's) disciples. At that point it was very clear in my mind that they were his (Srila Prabhupada's) disciples."
(Tamala Krishna Goswami, Conversation, December 3, 1980)