The real aim of annotations

Posted On: Fri, 2008-05-09 22:47 by sitapati

Madhava Ghosh prabhu weighs in with a response to the Annotations issue:

As language morphs, the need to annotate will become greater if the desire is there to retain Prabhupada’s books in original versions. That may seem academic now, but will be a greater need as decades slip by.

Ghosh gives the example of the changed meaning of the word "gay" to illustrate the need for annotations. He also refers to the meaning of the "rape" in the example that is given in the GBC proposal. [Ed: this was mistaken - in fact he did not.]

The problem with this, is that this is not at all the intention of the annotations. The intention of the annotations is to deal with Prabhupada's statements where the meaning of words is not unclear, but the import of the statement is socially unacceptable to modern audiences both within and without ISKCON - statements like "women are less intelligent".

The meaning of the words in that statement are clear. The meaning of the phrase, however, is objectionable and "offensive" to some readers.

This is the issue that this proposal seeks to address. After proffering an example that no-one can disagree with, the 4th Canto rape quote, the proposal then off-handedly says: "the above quotes, and other such statements as determined by the BBT". This gives sweeping power to annotate. And reading Praghosa prabhu's comments on this issue on Dandavats make it clear that the motivation behind these annotations is not to clarify word meanings, but to strategically deal with challenges to our "social siddhanta" - Srila Prabhupada's take on social issues.

The way the proposal has been worded is designed to make arguments like Madhava Ghosh's about word meaning the focal point, and admit the power to "annotate at will", at which point the real agenda can be carried out - dealing with statements where word meaning is clear but social import is problematic.

I'm not a "member of GHQ" (that means a member of the ultra-right wing of ISKCON thought ;-) ). Both Krishna-kirti prabhu and Amara prabhu can vouch for that.

However, I am a conservative, in the sense that Akruranath prabhu described it: generally preferring to retain things as they are.

Orthodox at the core, innovative at the edge - write more books and commentaries. Don't change the existing books.

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Madhava Gosh Point of

Madhava Gosh   |   Tue, 2008-05-13 16:14

Madhava Gosh

Point of clarification; I did NOT refer to the example of 'rape" in my post -- I deliberately avoided it, trying to approach the issue from a neutral, more academic perspective.

Perhaps you were speed reading and assumed that it was there but it wasn't.

Regardless, words are not only words -- to understand how a word was used you have to understand the culture in which they are or were used.

For instance, in America, words designating bodily functions are considered curse words, but in other cultures they aren't. "Merde" in French translates literally as "shit' in English but the nuance is completely different -- it is more like saying "darn" or something, not really considered an expletive, whereas in English it is.

Annotations are not editing -- they don't change the books. Both annotated and unannotated books can exist simultaneously. One doesn't preclude the other.

We can understand that when SP used the word "rape" he was saying that some women like consensual "rough sex." but for a first time reader the context of the cultural expression of SP writing in a foreign culture in a second language does require some explanation.

My apologies prabhu, for the

sitapati   |   Tue, 2008-05-13 20:34

My apologies prabhu, for the mistake.

Maybe we can have two annotated editions, in addition to the "Original flavour" - one annotated by His Holiness Bhakti Vikasa Swami, and one annotated by Amara prabhu.. :-)

The big problem is that what is being introduced here is the ability for a managerial body to annotate Srila Prabhupada's books to achieve specific effects in the temporary environment. This is "political commentary". Once this power is introduced, it will lead to contamination of the books in the future. The GBC is a demonstrably fallible body. The last thing we need is another recanting and apology, this time involving Srila Prabhupada's book, which are the only certain shelter for ISKCON members.

Classes more dangerous than annotations

Madhava Gosh   |   Wed, 2008-05-14 11:24

Madhava Gosh

That problem will always be there, but I think the greater problem is that someone giving class is much more likely to introduce such deviations. We see this all the time with the misogynists and the homophobes.

From a practical point of view, currently SP's Gita is not accepted in American academia, and a greater good can be served by having the intelligent class of men exposed to SP's Gita than the more dangerous alternative of academics, who influence the thinkers of society, using a mayavadi version.

(see how I snuck practical into this discussion heh heh (you invoked it first in another thread))

Annotations are not going to

sitapati   |   Wed, 2008-05-14 21:06

Annotations are not going to do away with the "sexist comments".

At the same time, introducing the strategy of annotations will fracture ISKCON and irreversibly take away a categorical protection that currently exists around Prabhupada's words.

We should write another book for academics to use, one that is solidly based on Prabhupada and connects people to his literary legacy.

Madhava Gosh It would have

Madhava Gosh   |   Thu, 2008-05-15 12:47

Madhava Gosh

It would have been a lot less fracturing to have annotated SP's books instead of editing them. Fracture is already there.

I think that the book for academics would be one where the original is preserved and annotated, as that is how scholars approach things.

Re: The real aim of annotations

Amara dasa   |   Sat, 2008-05-10 19:53

"Write more books and commentaries."

This, of course, already has and continues to be done. For instance, both BV Tripurari Swami and Srila Narayana Maharaja have Bhagavad Gitas that do not contain any offensive commentaries against women or minority groups (none of their writings do, actually). With the annotations, however, I would feel more comfortable recommending Srila Prabhupada's books as per the GBC statement. Why delegate his books as "historical documents" so soon after his passing?

Because as soon as he stops

sitapati   |   Sat, 2008-05-10 22:19

Because as soon as he stops writing them they are historical documents. Historical revisionism - "Prabhupada as we would have him be" - is just not on.

I don't present everything in the books to everyone straight away. It needs to be understood in the context of Srila Prabhupada's personal character, his personal behaviour in relation to ISKCON social issues, the overall body of his work, the personal character of his followers and the society that they create.

And that's where the real issue lies. People do not have an issue with Prabhupada's books. They have an issue with the character of this followers and his society - and that's where we should be working. Not on the books. That is very, very dangerous.

Why not write an opinion

ekendra   |   Sat, 2008-05-10 05:54

Why not write an opinion piece for ISKCON News? That's what the column is there for.

Your servant,
Ekendra das

I'm working on it in my head

sitapati   |   Sat, 2008-05-10 22:20

I'm working on it in my head at the moment.

My latest round of comments on Dandavats were disallowed.

Re: Disallowed

Amara dasa   |   Sun, 2008-05-11 17:04

They never allow me to post on Dandavats.com anymore. I sent several very polite, carefully worded postings and they were all rejected. I definitely don't feel that they live up to their motto ("the website that will fall over to serve you").

Sita-pati das

Mission

jani va na jani, kari apana-sodhana

  1. "Whether I realize it or not, it is for self-purification that I write this blog."


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